I've had a journal forever it seems over at LiveJournal, but alas, it has become a dinosaur of sorts, and there have been so many issues with the site itself. The proverbial " mene, mene, tekel, upharsin" is there, I am not sure how long the site will last. It's been a good journey there, and I am thankful for the site and those I have met and learned from on this site. But now "to infinity and beyond."
I had an experience about a month ago that has been rolling around in my head ever since. In my work environment, I recently had someone pull the "if you were to die tonight, do you know where you would stand with Jesus" card, unexpectedly. This person and I were having a non-religious oriented conversation and it came out of nowhere. To be honest, it took me by surprise. This person is very outwardly religious oriented (e.g., praising Jesus, reading the Bible and devotional materials and keeping them on display in their workplace) and as a rule, I avoid conversations such as this, it really has NO place in a business space and although I show respect for these outward displays of religiosity, that same respect is not returned. So best to avoid altogether as I believe that as coworkers we should all work together as well as we can. The whole office benefits from these sort of shared goals and rules of engagement.
But there it was, the statement uttered. The question had been asked. Appropriate or not, I decided to engage my coworker in a little conversation. Another co-worker was present as well, and any thought of me backing down from this sort of communication went away. I say I believe in being an advocate for others who may have non-dominant views and here was my coworker, such a lovely soul, who I had previously had several enlightening conversations with, looking at me and wondering how I was going to answer this question. "I am at peace with the current state of my soul or spiritual condition" is what I think I said. It's not that I didn't understand the question that was asked. I grew up in a similar faith or origin, I would accurately describe it as a fundamentalist, evangelical, separatist faith with all the trappings that come along with it. You know "sin, sex, divine intervention, death and destruction" along with extra helpings of " guilt, worthlessness, and conformity to the exclusion of reason and personal interpretation." Of course growing up it didn't seem that way, it never does. But then, when as a child I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things. But I digress. I totally understood where she was coming from, I had used the same line many many times in ages past. Your whole religious / spiritual quest is whittled down to this one phrase. " if you were to die tonight, do you know where you would stand with Jesus?" Seriously, as though what we are in this sense can be condensed to this ONE question. Life teaches us at least that things are not as simple as we would like them to be and in this case, placing me in with the sheep or the goats based on this one utterance is overly simplistic and when you think about it, it's offensive. I'm a complex and sometimes complicated being, context and communication is what is warranted here, but this sort of categorizing allows for none of this. I believe she believed in what she was saying, and from her perspective, she was doing her good deed and following the commandments as laid out in her authoritative text. She did not understand my answer. I was willing to have a rational conversation about my "spiritual state" (try explaining what THAT is sometime - especially if you hold to the belief as I do that everything is transitory, that is, NOTHING is fixed, person, place, NOTHING. Try processing that.
My answer did not fit her belief system, her system of belief accepts nothing but dichotomous variables, either yes or no. There is no other option. She assumed that I identified as Christian. She had tears in her eyes when I told her that I would not use that term to describe myself but that I was at peace in my own spiritual path. I do keep the faith in my fashion (thank you Sting for such a great line), but my faith is not like hers. My faith of origin was Christian. I am not a Christian. (See there's that transitory thing coming up already). Most who know me have undoubtedly suspected this for years, but then I think asking someone if they are a Christian in the course of conversation is like asking someone "how big is your cock" - something not for MOST conversation, it's rude and it crosses a line. And it puts people in a box and does not allow for diversity and variation. I reject this wholeheartedly. Reason, knowledge, and life have taught me otherwise. I would never say that my views are the only correct views, there's just too much that I know and that I don't know that prevent me from endorsing this as sacrosanct. I have ideas, I know what I hope for, but I don't feel the need to evangelize this to others (although it could be said I am doing just that here - AHA!). The whole evangelistic command is set up wrong. Why would you tell something to people who are not asking to be told? It's like Cliff Clavin from "Cheers" - always spouting off useless information to people who have no interest in his statements because they are not asking questions. Whoosh! In one ear and out the other. Perhaps to follow a more Eastern Asian perspective here, that is, to give answers to those who come to you with questions. The mind is prepared and those seeking answers place value on what is being said. As a public health professional I know this, we have this transtheoretical model, stages of change, that we use in assessing how ready individuals are to take on health related behaviors and messages. Those in precontemplation stage and contemplation stage are not ready to make changes to behaviors. This is what I think about all the evangelistic fervor used in prosletyzing others to their point of view. Go spread your "good news"to those who ask to hear it. Leave the rest of us alone.
This speaks to another point in this belief system, that is, my way is the only way to get to "God" and if you don't follow what I say you will surely perish and burn for all eternity. Exclusivity for those within the group and not for those deemed Outsiders or Others. Baby thoughts, baby talk. Perhaps good enough for humanity when we identified tribally and in small groups, but not for today.
Okay, I should stop.
Suffice it to say that it felt good to try and have a rational conversation with this person at work. Good to be authentic with what I say and believe. She meant well, I just don't see any meaningful conversation coming from this, too much bibliocentric babble and reasoning to deal with here. As for me, I will go on doing what my inner self tells me is good and truthful for me. Embrace truth wherever you find it.
I had an experience about a month ago that has been rolling around in my head ever since. In my work environment, I recently had someone pull the "if you were to die tonight, do you know where you would stand with Jesus" card, unexpectedly. This person and I were having a non-religious oriented conversation and it came out of nowhere. To be honest, it took me by surprise. This person is very outwardly religious oriented (e.g., praising Jesus, reading the Bible and devotional materials and keeping them on display in their workplace) and as a rule, I avoid conversations such as this, it really has NO place in a business space and although I show respect for these outward displays of religiosity, that same respect is not returned. So best to avoid altogether as I believe that as coworkers we should all work together as well as we can. The whole office benefits from these sort of shared goals and rules of engagement.
But there it was, the statement uttered. The question had been asked. Appropriate or not, I decided to engage my coworker in a little conversation. Another co-worker was present as well, and any thought of me backing down from this sort of communication went away. I say I believe in being an advocate for others who may have non-dominant views and here was my coworker, such a lovely soul, who I had previously had several enlightening conversations with, looking at me and wondering how I was going to answer this question. "I am at peace with the current state of my soul or spiritual condition" is what I think I said. It's not that I didn't understand the question that was asked. I grew up in a similar faith or origin, I would accurately describe it as a fundamentalist, evangelical, separatist faith with all the trappings that come along with it. You know "sin, sex, divine intervention, death and destruction" along with extra helpings of " guilt, worthlessness, and conformity to the exclusion of reason and personal interpretation." Of course growing up it didn't seem that way, it never does. But then, when as a child I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things. But I digress. I totally understood where she was coming from, I had used the same line many many times in ages past. Your whole religious / spiritual quest is whittled down to this one phrase. " if you were to die tonight, do you know where you would stand with Jesus?" Seriously, as though what we are in this sense can be condensed to this ONE question. Life teaches us at least that things are not as simple as we would like them to be and in this case, placing me in with the sheep or the goats based on this one utterance is overly simplistic and when you think about it, it's offensive. I'm a complex and sometimes complicated being, context and communication is what is warranted here, but this sort of categorizing allows for none of this. I believe she believed in what she was saying, and from her perspective, she was doing her good deed and following the commandments as laid out in her authoritative text. She did not understand my answer. I was willing to have a rational conversation about my "spiritual state" (try explaining what THAT is sometime - especially if you hold to the belief as I do that everything is transitory, that is, NOTHING is fixed, person, place, NOTHING. Try processing that.
My answer did not fit her belief system, her system of belief accepts nothing but dichotomous variables, either yes or no. There is no other option. She assumed that I identified as Christian. She had tears in her eyes when I told her that I would not use that term to describe myself but that I was at peace in my own spiritual path. I do keep the faith in my fashion (thank you Sting for such a great line), but my faith is not like hers. My faith of origin was Christian. I am not a Christian. (See there's that transitory thing coming up already). Most who know me have undoubtedly suspected this for years, but then I think asking someone if they are a Christian in the course of conversation is like asking someone "how big is your cock" - something not for MOST conversation, it's rude and it crosses a line. And it puts people in a box and does not allow for diversity and variation. I reject this wholeheartedly. Reason, knowledge, and life have taught me otherwise. I would never say that my views are the only correct views, there's just too much that I know and that I don't know that prevent me from endorsing this as sacrosanct. I have ideas, I know what I hope for, but I don't feel the need to evangelize this to others (although it could be said I am doing just that here - AHA!). The whole evangelistic command is set up wrong. Why would you tell something to people who are not asking to be told? It's like Cliff Clavin from "Cheers" - always spouting off useless information to people who have no interest in his statements because they are not asking questions. Whoosh! In one ear and out the other. Perhaps to follow a more Eastern Asian perspective here, that is, to give answers to those who come to you with questions. The mind is prepared and those seeking answers place value on what is being said. As a public health professional I know this, we have this transtheoretical model, stages of change, that we use in assessing how ready individuals are to take on health related behaviors and messages. Those in precontemplation stage and contemplation stage are not ready to make changes to behaviors. This is what I think about all the evangelistic fervor used in prosletyzing others to their point of view. Go spread your "good news"to those who ask to hear it. Leave the rest of us alone.
This speaks to another point in this belief system, that is, my way is the only way to get to "God" and if you don't follow what I say you will surely perish and burn for all eternity. Exclusivity for those within the group and not for those deemed Outsiders or Others. Baby thoughts, baby talk. Perhaps good enough for humanity when we identified tribally and in small groups, but not for today.
Okay, I should stop.
Suffice it to say that it felt good to try and have a rational conversation with this person at work. Good to be authentic with what I say and believe. She meant well, I just don't see any meaningful conversation coming from this, too much bibliocentric babble and reasoning to deal with here. As for me, I will go on doing what my inner self tells me is good and truthful for me. Embrace truth wherever you find it.
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